321125 สัมภาษณ์พ่อท่านโดยองค์กรศาสนาสัมพันธ์แห่งโลก English Version.docx

different from others or the customs of this group is distinguish from other Buddhist sects or groups. Mr. Sathit: We dress the same, almost the same as the monks of the mainstream do. The only difference previously we have eyebrows here but they don't. And another thing is that we eat vegetarian food here. And the interpretation of the scriptures is not different at all but we go deeper than they do. That's why they think that we misinterpret it. And ordinarily, the followers of this temple behave the same thing as taught by most preachers. And they do behave, I would think, better, well. If you answer that they live simple life. You see here, their living place is very simple. They don't have money. All the money they have is spent for the benefit of the people: to publish paper like this books, dhamma books and so on. They have printing press of their own over there. Mr. Kawai: He's asking the relationship with other religion like Islam, Christians and other Buddhist. And this movement toward, in the way of the religious cooperation movement but this movement is strengthening themselves only by themselves. Mr. Sathit: We emphasize Buddhism but the other religion who come here and study, we don't quarrel or we don't have any difference with other religion at all....at noon, as I told you, we refer to Mohammad's teaching, Christ teaching and Buddha's teaching and then we pray with solemn for one minute here at noon at 12 o'clock. Mr. Kawai: I don't understand, there seems to be some difference between this Santi Asoke and the traditional Buddhism. So are you in a position of some restriction from the government of tradition Buddhism? Because... Mr. Sathit: What do you mean restriction? Mr. Kawai: What I mean is that in the way of the activities and when people become members, do they give some additional conditions to become members of this group? Mr. Sathit: Previously we dress like traditional Buddhist monks. And after sometime this last year they were arrested. And they force them to strip off the old gown and to put on white clothes like this and like that. Moreover, they forbid them to go out to begging which is done by usually as Buddhist monks, we have to beg for consumption or our lives and we do for the benefit of society. When once the government has forced us to refrain from doing such a thing, we cannot...it's detrimental to our rights. Mr. Kawai: So, how do members or people can contribute to the temple? Mr. Sathit: They can do but they cannot go out for begging, you know. There is a kind of limitation, restriction upon them. Because it's the duty of a Buddhist monk to go out begging for people to donate to purify their minds. Mr. Kawai: In case of members increasing and the donations are going up, is it expectable for them to get more, you know, restrictions from the traditional Buddhist government. But they try to get the movement spread... Mr. Sathit: ...disperse... Mr. Kawai: Despite of expected strings and imitations and restrictions, are they try to get the movement more spread. Mr. Sathit: He feels that the government is in need of dispersing us, destroy us completely. Mr. Kawai: I'm visiting here, this temple, reminds me the last year meeting when we visited some Buddhist temples with our members who can meditate and those small houses are for meditation or to live here including meditation, like a house. Mr. Kawai: I'm afraid I might have asked some, you know, impolite questions to him. But I hope this movement will continue to grow. Thank you very much. Mr. Sathit: All right he's pleased to be questioned. Mr. Kawai: To ask outsiders or we are movements in the movement Dhamma.........for him some explanations to us toward us or some thoughts does he have something to say for us or say to the members of the Asian Conference movement. Mr. Sathit: He has a question, some questions. Mr. Sawahd: May I refer to our report to Mr. Kawai since he is the chairman of the Human Rights committee in Tokyo, we sent you the report for consideration and asked you to contain if possible and ask him to carry, refer to your head office in Geneva to persuade the Thai government to act properly in this regard regarding the Santi Asoke case. What have you done with our report? Mr. Kawai: Since our movement, the first conference was held in Singapore, since then Human Rights commission has been established. And now we have two centers. One is in Delhi, India and one is set up here in Bangkok. Since Bangkok is the center of Asia and how we are in the position to collect informations about Human Rights problems and we are worried the relationship with your government to this movement. So having asked advises from.........and so on, the members of......center in Bangkok, we are now collecting and deepening our understanding. So when I go back after visiting here, I could report, say to Geneva office of ........movements. So in the case of your movement, regarding your movement, we are asking also advises from.......like....... and so on. With our effort, paying considerable attention and having advises from Judge.......and Judge........and so on. Because the problem is very national and subtle and domestic, we have to consider deliberately. Mr. Sawahd: Anyhow, since we would like to make it clear to foreigners in relation to Human Rights problems only without the interfere with the domestic problems or with the court decision, we try to separate human rights and the court proceeding. So we come to the issue that we have been violated by the Declaration of Human Rights. So we would like to make it clear on this point. Mr. Kawai: What declaration did you say? Mr. Sawahd: Human Rights Declaration. Mr. Sathit: Infringement of Human Rights Declaration. Freedom of religion. Mr. Sawahd: According to our report, make it clear that we have been violated on our freedom of religion. don't interfere with the court proceedings. No, not at all. Mr. Kawai: I understand very well and I saw the problems of human rights and discrimination of this kind. We have to proceed our movements, concerning with our Thai committee. And we set up Thai center of.........Human Rights Commission and I set some fund for this movement and this is from our members. As a matter of fact, I am (he is) a priest, center priest of his shrine, Omihatromaga Shrine and members of the shrine donated some amounts of money and that money has been distributed, sent to this Thai center and when I spoke to members of my (his) shrine that we are helping for the service of this kind of Human Rights program, like Santi Asoke and so on, with that understanding I'd like to proceed our........ Committee of Human Rights Center. Mr. Sawahd: One more question, Mr. Kawai for more information for good understanding for better understanding, we, in Thailand here, we are fighting here with two systems. The first one is freedom of religion as provided by the constitution. Secondly, we are fighting with the state religion claimed by the governement or by the mainstream, you know. The mainstream claim that the Buddhism is the state religion, so it's not. It's not because it's not...there is no make it clear with our visitors on the two points. Mr. Kawai: So he said that the Buddhism, the statement of Buddhism is national religion is not mentioned in the.... Mr. Sathit: No, it is not mentioned in the constitution at all. But they claim it to be the national religion. It's not because people are free to believe in any religion. Mr. Kawai: I made this confirmation because I have been told that Buddhist or mainstream is the national religion. Mr. Sathit: ........or the mainstream Buddhist order wants us to be in their government in their ruling and Ecclesiastic order. Mr. Kawai: Thank you very much. We could understand more deeper understand through asking our question. Since we have this kind of inclination to think that when some new movement arises against the tradition, we might think that some political aims are being included. But now, we could understand that this is a true purely religious movement. Mr. Sawahd: We have learnt that Dr. John Taylor and our members of the Human Rights Committee, three of us are the members, so can we arrange the proclaim to talk among us with Dr. John Taylor by tomorrow. Because tomorrow about ten, he's going to visit Mr. Sathit: President of Privy Council. Mr. Kawai: President of what? Mr. Sathit: Privy Council, Dr. Sanya Dhammasati who sent the message that we read at our conference in Melbourne last January. He's going to see that man. He's the president of the World Fellowship Buddhist. Mr. Kawai: Not in relationship with the seminar. Mr. Sathit: I think he's going to attend the seminar also but he doesn't understand that I'm the organizer. Mr. Kawai: So tomorrow 10 o'clock, he suggesting..... Mr. Sathit: No, not tomorrow but the day after tomorrow on 27th. Mr. Kawai: But we have to leave on 27th. Mr. Sathit: So, we have no choice to meet. They have to leave on the 27th and John Taylor is going to see the president of the Privy Council on 27th at 10 o'clock tomorrow he's going to attend the seminar. Mr. Sawahd: Yes, what about tomorrow evening, can we meet shortly? Mr. Kawai: If possible.....it's alright. We could have contrast, the way of thinking contrast between Westerner like John Taylor with us Asians toward this movement. Mr. Sathit: He's coming to the examine on the facts. He's going to meet him, I think, on the 27. Mr. Kawai: We are very happy to have this time to understand and deeper our understand of this movement. Mr. Sathit: This is the translation of the complain. Mr. Sawahd: And defendant statement. Mr. Sathit: He thanks you very much for coming here to learn the true fact of this organization. learn the true fact of this organization. Transcribed by Saengkwan Vongsnara 27.11.1989 Typed by Saengkwan Vongsnara 28.11.1989 Proofed by P. Preda 29.11.1989